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Thread: Elemental Weapons

  1. #1

    Elemental Weapons

    During the so-called Aftershock patch, Elemental Wands and Staves had their removed bonuses reimplemented, albeit weaker. I know the elemental mage community was happy to see this, but it wasn't long before we all noticed that something else was wrong. Many of the weapons, we noticed, had their bonuses swapped. The specific weapons listed below, do not give the proper bonuses.

    Elemental Staff 2: +5% Poison, +10% Fire, -25% Holy, Ice, and Lightning based damage.
    Elemental Staff 4: +5% Lightning, +10% Ice, -25% Holy, Fire, and Poison based damage.
    Elemental Wand 6: +5% Poison, +10% Fire, -25% Holy, Ice, and Lightning based damage.
    Elemental Wand 8: +5% Lightning, +10% Ice, -25% Holy, Fire, and Poison based damage.
    Elemental Staff 6: +5% Poison, +10% Fire, -25% Holy, Ice, and Lightning based damage.
    Elemental Staff 7: +5% Ice, +10% Lightning, -25% Holy, Fire, and Poison based damage.
    Elemental Staff 8: +5% Lightning, +10% Ice, -25% Holy, Fire, and Poison based damage.

    All of these weapons give 5% total damage to attacks they should be giving 10% total damage to, etc. And a few months after this issue being seemingly ignored, Nexon had a community chat session on Sleepywood. Someone asked Hime about the issue, she replied to it:
    http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9675/victorywh.png

    So I have to ask...why has nothing been done still? Even though this issue was allegedly acknowledged behind the scenes, I still have yet to see any action taken.

    Now to another issue, well, issue to-be anyway, currently, Elemental Staves have a speed of Fast (4). Right now that isn't a problem, it helps keep Battle Mages well balanced in GMS. However, in KMS, where the weapons are non-existent, Battle Mages have fallen behind, and recently in a test server patch, they decreased they delays of many skills. Namely, the base delay of Finishing Blow was changed from 990ms to 810ms. Great for KMS Battle Mages, or Battle Mages here who can't afford an Elemental Staff. But there is a problem, with this, if Elemental Staves remain at Fast (4) for this patch any Battle Mage attacking with an Elemental Staff will be attacking at a ridiculously fast 630ms whenever Staff Booster is active. What's wrong here? That's the most hits per second of any Mage class, even more than so-called offensive Mages, like Arch Mages. What's the solution? Sometime around or before this patch, make Elemental Staves Slow (8).

    "But won't that nerf Battle Mages from their current state with Ele Staves? The state you said was perfectly fine?"
    Nope. Currently, a Battle Mage with an Elemental Staff attacks with a delay of 780ms on Finishing Blow. After this patch to-be rolls around, a Battle Mage with a Slow (8) staff also attacks at 780ms. For the Mages with Elemental Staves, nothing is lost. For the Battle Mages without one, there is only something to gain. As a matter of fact, there are other buffs to Battle Mages beyond the reduced delays, even if you are using an Elemental Staff, you'd still get buffed from the patch. So, no, I'm not asking for Battle Mages to be nerfed.

    But that's not the only thing either, that issue with glitched bonuses? Yeah, that, honestly, if it's that hard to code a simple bonus, why not just make the weapons give 10% total damage so everyone can enjoy the special bonuses from the weapons that the elemental mages already do. Bishops could use it, elemental mages still get to keep their precious bonuses, and even Battle Mages get a little benefit. At least then, no one has a reason to complain about one class getting unfair advantages from the weapons.

    While the only actual glitch I've listed is the reversed bonuses, I feel that the suggestions I made were based off of legitimate concerns, and I feel that it would be the best way to go about solving the problems surrounding these weapons. Of course, I realize a number of people won't agree with me on this, and you're free to your opinion. I just ask that you keep your criticism of the last half...three-fourths...whatever fraction of this thread my suggestions make up, civil.
    Last edited by Fallacious; 06-14-2012 at 09:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Since I can't edit in my post, I forgot to clarify, the penalties for using the "wrong" staff should be removed as well.

  3. #3
    I know that picture from somewhere... Oh right, that's the Q&A chit chat I had with -Hime-.

    For fixing the glitch I definitely agree. Rest I'm kinda indifferent to.

  4. #4
    Production Waltzing's Avatar
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    Moved to General. Please keep threads in the Bug section of the forum about bugs. As long as they follow the Forums Code of Conduct, threads such as these regarding disagreements with design decisions can be posted in the General section.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse View Post
    I have an eStaff 7 and I really don't see a Lightning difference when on my i/L, but more of an ice difference, like it should be.
    Also, if you have booster + AYA on a Battle Mage PLUS an Estaff5-8, you've already hit the max speed and cannot go higher, even if you have SI the speed will remain the same. The Arch Mages don't rely on the speed of the weapon at all, only the Battle Mages do.
    To add to this, stupid 5 minute edit rule...
    KMS has Evil Wings, Pyogo Mushroom, etc which are ALSO Fast (4).
    A Battle Mage doesn't really need an eStaff5-8 as there are other options available if those are out of your price range.

    Also, it seems like you're really against BaMs for some reason. And you really shouldn't be, and here's why: My 173 i/L Mage does more damage and is better at mobbing than my 193 Battle Mage with most of the same equips and half the range.

    You also didn't factor in Evan, who is (and I hate to admit it) the strongest Mage in the game. They can get 400ms per attack, yet the Battle Mage's 630ms is a bit out of control?

    I say leave the eStaves like they are, everyone's happy (as long as the bonuses stay there).
    Last edited by Maryse; 06-15-2012 at 12:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Fightdapowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse View Post
    KMS has Evil Wings, Pyogo Mushroom, etc which are ALSO Fast (4)..
    Have not played mages in awhile so excuse my silly question but do we not also have evil wings on GMS that are fast? I think you can craft them as well with 10 Bronze Plate and 3 Intermediate Abrasive.

    I have a E-Staff 5 working on my mage to wear it though...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse
    I have an eStaff 7 and I really don't see a Lightning difference when on my i/L, but more of an ice difference, like it should be.
    Also, if you have booster + AYA on a Battle Mage PLUS an Estaff5-8, you've already hit the max speed and cannot go higher, even if you have SI the speed will remain the same. The Arch Mages don't rely on the speed of the weapon at all, only the Battle Mages do.
    The extractions, as well as testing from other Mages says otherwise. Also, you don't need AYA to hit the speed cap, and I'm also well aware of how speed is calculated for Arch Mages/Bishops/Evans and Battle Mages. Don't see how "it's easy to hit the speed cap" even applies to what I'm saying honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse
    To add to this, stupid 5 minute edit rule...
    KMS has Evil Wings, Pyogo Mushroom, etc which are ALSO Fast (4).
    A Battle Mage doesn't really need an eStaff5-8 as there are other options available if those are out of your price range.

    Also, it seems like you're really against BaMs for some reason. And you really shouldn't be, and here's why: My 173 i/L Mage does more damage and is better at mobbing than my 193 Battle Mage with most of the same equips and half the range.

    You also didn't factor in Evan, who is (and I hate to admit it) the strongest Mage in the game. They can get 400ms per attack, yet the Battle Mage's 630ms is a bit out of control?

    I say leave the eStaves like they are, everyone's happy (as long as the bonuses stay there).
    Evil Wings is so low leveled that that M. ATT of a higher leveled Staff will eventually outdo it. Pyogo Mushroom is Fast (5), not Fast (4) as well. I've got nothing against Battle Mages either, I have one of my own. I even have an Elemental Staff 7 for her that is shared with my I/L. Thing is, I see no reason to become a speed demon like Evan when the revamp in question arrives. Also, there's nothing that could be done to Elemental Weapons that would balance out Evans (unfortunately). I only want to change the weapon speed in light of this revamp (changing it near or at this point doesn't hurt anyone if you read the post) and I'd like the penalties removed as well as the elemental bonuses just being straight up 10% total damage instead of this messed up, glitched nonsense. That way, no one can complain about them being specially catered to *insert Mage here*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzing
    Moved to General. Please keep threads in the Bug section of the forum about bugs. As long as they follow the Forums Code of Conduct, threads such as these regarding disagreements with design decisions can be posted in the General section.
    Ah, okay. I figured since the first part was a bug report it should go there. Guess not. Thanks.
    Last edited by Fallacious; 06-15-2012 at 12:24 AM.

  8. #8
    Giraffe Whisperer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fightdapowa View Post
    Have not played mages in awhile so excuse my silly question but do we not also have evil wings on GMS that are fast? I think you can craft them as well with 10 Bronze Plate and 3 Intermediate Abrasive.
    Yup, we do.
    I had that staff before I got an eStaff4 (and then switched to eStaff7 at 163).
    Also, boyfriend pointed out that KMS also has Doomsday Staff which is Normal (6) and I'm sure they also have the Pyrope Maple Staff which is also Normal as well.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallacious View Post
    The extractions, as well as testing from other Mages says otherwise. Also, you don't need AYA to hit the speed cap, and I'm also well aware of how speed is calculated for Arch Mages/Bishops/Evans and Battle Mages. Don't see how "it's easy to hit the speed cap" even applies to what I'm saying honestly.



    Evil Wings is so low leveled that that M. ATT of a higher leveled Staff will eventually outdo it. Pyogo Mushroom is Fast (5), not Fast (4) as well. I've got nothing against Battle Mages either, I have one of my own. I even have an Elemental Staff 7 for her. Thing is, I see no reason to become a speed demon like Evan when the revamp in question arrives. Also, there's nothing that could be done to Elemental Weapons that would balance out Evans (unfortunately). I only want to change the weapon speed in light of this revamp (changing it near or at this point doesn't hurt anyone if you read the post) and I'd like the penalties removed as well as the elemental bonuses just being straight up 10% total damage instead of this messed up, glitched nonsense. That way, no one can complain about them being specially catered to *insert Mage here*.
    I don't know where you saw "it's easy to hit the speed cap", I've never said such a thing.
    It's just that you were going on about the speed, and it made it seem like you were upset about the fact that the Battle Mages get more attack speed than the other Arch Mages due to the fact that the Staves are Fast.

    Also Pyogo Mushroom is 5 - that's still 2 with Booster and AYA, which they'll always have due to aura stacking. BBoost also eliminates the Normal6 ones for a short while. For example Pyrope Staff = 6!, Booster+AYA+BBoost = -4!

    I also disagree about removing the elemental penalties. They're elemental weapons for a reason, which is to help the elemental mages. There is no penalty for the Battle Mage however, and the Evan can use an eWand/Staff 1 and 5. I don't see why we would be using a weapon that, even if there's a lot of m.att on it, it won't do much difference if there's a penalty on every attack you use.
    The only mage that can wear the elemental staff but shouldn't is the Bishop. Every other can as long as they are wielding the right elemental weapon. Bishops don't really need an eWand/Staff5-8 anyway, they're not an offense class, and they could get the 140 weapon as well. 140 Weapon + Complete set > eWand/Staff with no set (unless BaM).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse View Post
    They're elemental weapons for a reason, which is to help the elemental mages.
    The initial reason these penalties were introduced is long outdated. Arch Mages are no longer behind Bishops, there is no reason to prevent Bishops (or Mages of another element) from having access to whichever weapon they pleased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse View Post
    There is no penalty for the Battle Mage however, and the Evan can use an eWand/Staff 1 and 5.
    I don't recall saying that Evans and Battle Mages couldn't use them due to penalties. Evans also have access to weapons 2 and 6. And thanks to the lovely glitches, for the most part, it's the same as having 1 or 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryse View Post
    The only mage that can wear the elemental staff but shouldn't is the Bishop. Every other can as long as they are wielding the right elemental weapon. Bishops don't really need an eWand/Staff5-8 anyway, they're not an offense class, and they could get the 140 weapon as well. 140 Weapon + Complete set > eWand/Staff with no set (unless BaM).
    Battle Mages aren't 100% offensively oriented either, they technically don't "need" the weapons either. Yet I don't see a penalty to non-elemental attacks to prevent them from wanting to use them. And believe it or not, Elemental Weapons are easier to access than Empress Weapons.

    I really don't get why you're assuming I don't know how the weapons work or how certain game mechanics are calculated.
    Last edited by Fallacious; 06-15-2012 at 12:44 AM.

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